DNA Change Rates Modern Science vs. The Bible

printer version

When the DNA analysis of the British and Irish people was conducted by the Oxford and Irish scientists, we found that the rates of change of the mtDNA clans were decided on at a standard rate of one mutational change in 20,000 years. The details were included by Brian Sykes in his work: Blood of the Isles, Exploring the genetic roots of our tribal history (Bantam Press, London et al., 2006, p. 150). This standard rate of change was applied to all clans. The clan Ursula, one of the so-called Seven Daughters of Eve in Europe, was held to have originated in Ancient Greece. As her mtDNA had the most mutations, she was thus assumed to have been the oldest of the female clans.

This female was assumed to have coexisted with the Neanderthals. Her descendants had an average of 2.25 mutations compared with the mtDNA of Ursula herself. The age of the skeleton was thus considered to be 2.25 x 20,000 = 45,000 years (ibid.).

From these views it was assumed that the first Irish built their timber-framed houses on the banks of the River Bann, at Mt Sandal, some 9,000 years ago, and that they were descended from this Greek female ancestor (ibid.). That view accords with what we know of the Irish, in that the first Irish were from Ancient Greece. However, it was nowhere near 9,000 years ago.

From Dr Richetti’s work for the Pasteur Institute we now know that mtDNA causes mutations over the entire human genome and, thus logically, interbreeding of tribal groups causes mtDNA intermix, and hence increasing mutations.

The assumption of scientists regarding the rate of mutational change is based on no fixed model, and is based on the assumption that mtDNA does not cause mutation of the human genome, which we now know to be false. This matter has already been examined in the paper The Genetic Origin of the Nations (No. 265).

Brian Sykes admits in his work that: “it is a frequent and understandable misunderstanding (if there can be such a thing) that we have located the skeleton of Ursula and the other matriarchs and then worked out how long ago they lived from carbon-dating. But this is not so; it is all accomplished by reconstructions” (ibid., p. 151). He goes on to explain that from the DNA fragments displayed on the map of Ireland he could see that almost exactly 10 per cent of Irish men and women are the direct maternal descendants of Ursula. He then converts ten percent of the population of Ireland, which is 5.7 million, to 570,000 Ursulans in Ireland. This was done by the fact that there were 91 Ursulan samples out of 921 Irish samples in total (ibid.). He then says that because the clan is so old he was able to find only three samples that were unmodified from the original Ursulan mtDNA. He then went on to state that as all three were customers of Oxford Ancestors he knew their whereabouts, and none of them lived in Ireland. One is in Hampshire, another in London and the third is in New York (ibid.).

We might raise an objection as to the spread of the sample, but let us accept that for the moment.

He proceeds to identify the changes. The one step or generation mutations of the sample were 22 in number. Then there are 23 second-generation mutations; 26 third-generation mutations; 10 fourth-generation mutations; 5 fifth-generation mutations; one sixth-generation, and one seventh-generation (op. cit., p. 152).

The one with the most generational changes since Ursula is a doctor in Chichester, Sussex.

These numbers of changes are then used to work out the average number of changes over the period, which is 2.5 on average, and the arbitrary time-frame of one per 20,000 years is used to determine the origin at 50,000 years, which is older than the imputed age of Ursula.

The Mitochondrial DNA of say Aborigines in the most common Haplogroup N has shown little change. The C YDNA and the RxR1 basic YDNA of these people has shown a specific mutation from C* basic to C4 in two sub groups that are unique to Australia and developed from the C* groups scattered from India to Vietnam in small numbers and is of the same order of development as are the C3 Mongols and the C2 Maori. Yet they are also allocated 45,000 years in Australia, which does not follow the reasoning of the model. The reason there is a small change is that the populations have been tribally isolated and, therefore, the mtDNA mutations have been minimised from their isolation. The simple fact that RxR1 basic is the fourth-last mutation on the male YDNA Haplogroup chain of 22 Haplogroups makes a nonsense out of the 45,000-year claim.

The difference of 5,000 years between the 45,000 years for Ursula and the 50,000 of the samples are held to be within the mathematical error permitted for the samples, but, as Brian Sykes himself admits, it is far in excess of the 9,000 years permitted for the oldest Irish habitation.

He solves the problem by arguing that most of the mutations must have occurred before they arrived in Ireland. Thus, it has to be argued also that they came as a homogenous group.

The argument is also put forward from this discrepancy that the ancestors of these people were paleolithic hunter-gatherers and not descended from the farmer populations of the Middle East less than 10,000 years ago (op. cit., pp. 152-153).

Brian Sykes and his colleagues found that in identifying the 91 Irish Ursulans, 68 had matching sequences elsewhere. Only 23 were unique to Ireland (loc. cit., p. 155). He reasoned that the third mutation sequence was nearby and thus the fourth-generation sequence happened in Ireland. By then correcting the dates, the time in Ireland was adjusted to a little over 7,000 years, at 7,300 years. There is an argument that separate spontaneous mutations may well have occurred elsewhere also, but this was not canvassed. The team admitted that the dates could fall within a thousand years either way and still fall within the scope of the estimate (ibid.). The possibility is then argued that they may have come earlier and later. The range for all groups is argued as 7,300-4,500 years ago, but the Ursulans are the original group in Ireland.

The history of the Irish is quite clear and well documented. The Milesians did not come into Ireland until ca. 500 BCE, from Spain. The Tuatha de Danaan were the longest reigning survivors of the original settlements, outliving the Formorians and Firbolgs and moving on into Britain. Of these Ursula mutations, the greatest is in England where we might expect to see more mutation as a result of their move into Britain. There is only one each of the sixth- and seventh-generation mutations, five x fifth-generation, and 10 x fourth-generation mutations.

We might thus assume that only two actual mutation sequences have established and we are now looking at the commencement of the next series. On this basis, even on the extended time-frames, we are under the 9,000 years. However, these mutations are occurring at a much faster rate than allowed, and we can see that more clearly from the YDNA.

The Bible rates are allotted at 7 mutations over 4,300 years from the Ursula mutation from mtDNA Haplogroups L M and N, which we can assume were the three base groups with the sons of Noah. We can allow 7 from 4,200 thus making the mutation rate at one in 600 years. That would then make the four generations of the mutations in Ireland come from 2,800 years ago, which is when the Tuatha de Danaan ruled Ireland, before the Milesians. Thus the historical record is corroborated by the genetic mtDNA record when matched against the Bible record, and all three time-frames concur when the genetic model is adjusted accordingly. If we adjust it by allowing the Haplogroup break-ups over a longer period of time, then we see the Ursula group simply downgrade into the more predominant group of Milesian females arriving 2,500 years ago.

YDNA mutations

There are two types of YDNA mutations. The first is a stable paternal system that is alleged to be much slower in mutating than mtDNA; it is alleged to take tens of thousands of years to mutate, with only single-sequence mutation between clans. The second sequence is much faster in mutation and is like a repeat of the sequence such as TAGA being repeated 12 times. It is like a stammer, and the YDNA loses or gains one of these sequences much more rapidly. This loss and gain results in splitting the Haplogroup into hundreds of paternal lines. These mutations are held by scientists to occur every 1,500 years or so. This period is much less than the 20,000 years allocated to the female Haplogroups. These figures are still far too old – and we will see below they are far less than that. Related clans in the US and Britain have experienced single-step mutations within two hundred years.

We already have proven documented YDNA changes of one, two and three step mutations between father and son over multiple haplogroups. The standard assumptions are simply false, and proven to be false by validated university conducted DNA testing. Testing has shown that two brothers from the same father can be one and two and even three step mutations apart and all three can be mutationally divergent. The models are wrong. The time frames are now proven to be much shorter than originally thought. However, to acknowledge that fact means the evolutionary models have to be shortened. Evolutionists simply won’t alter their religious paradigm.  The causes of the mutations are varied being caused by viruses and by radiation, both background and induced.

The most common clan in Ireland is what is termed clan Oisin, and it is a Gaelic clan, being less common in areas where the Anglo-Norman invasion occurred. In the South-east, where most of their influence was felt, particularly in Leinster, Oisin is some 73%. In Ulster in the North-east it is 81%, while in Munster in the South-west it is 95%, and in Connacht in the West of Ireland it reaches 98% of all males (op. cit., p. 160).

In contrast, for the mtDNA, all seven of the major maternal European clans and most of the minor ones were present in Ireland, and they were more or less equally distributed over the four provinces.

The YDNA clan Oisin signature can be found also among the Basques in Spain, and in Galicia and in Orkney. It is termed the Atlantic Modal Haplotype (AMH) and has repeats as follows: 11-24-13-13-12-14-12-12-10-6 on the Oxford sequence.

It exists in Scotland and in England and indicates Celtic influence right across the Isles. Geoffrey of Monmouth records that the Trojan Celts found the Magogites there and subjugated them when they invaded Britain.

The clan is found in effect where we would expect the Irish to have travelled according to their history. These are the sons of Japheth through Magog, and perhaps also Gomer.

The major section of the I Haplogoup (Isles) in Ireland, which was the original Hg of the Tuatha de Danaan moved across into England and Scotland and is merged now with the Hg I that came in with the Anglo-Saxon Horde and with the Vikings. Dan of the West is mixed now with the other tribes in Britain.

Rate of Change

The obvious objection to the mathematical model at one change per 20,000 years is not really canvassed by academia.

The variable rate of change between the YDNA and mtDNA groups shows a distinct variation on the rate of change by areas between the YDNA and mtDNA and among mtDNA and YDNA groups themselves.

For example, as we have seen in the Milesian Irish there are nine major Haplogroup variations in the lineage and then a series of further variations from R1b to R1b1c7 – which is the basic YDNA of the descendants of Neill of the Nine Hostages who lived some 1,600-odd years ago, and accounts for the lineage of some 5% of all Irishmen. Neill’s lineage involved 11 Haplogroup mutations from the original lineage of Adam. In some of these mutations there are two and three sub-groups formed.

On the basis of 20,000 years to a mutation, we are looking at up to 200,000 years for the YDNA mutational changes.

We know Neill lived in the fifth century CE, and there have been a series of mutational changes in the faster YDNA ‘stammer’ since that time. If we look at the YDNA of the O’Neills and the Geoghegans and the Higgins and the host of other clans that we see descended from him, we can see that the stammer mutates every hundred or two hundred years. Instead of taking this aspect seriously and matching the genealogical record of Ireland with the actual YDNA tests, which show the rate of change as much faster than anticipated, some academics have even disputed his existence rather than face the fact that the evolutionary model is wrong and artificially alleged to take tens of thousands of years to mutate, with only single-sequence mutation between clans. The second sequence is much faster in mutation and is like a repeat of the sequence such as TAGA being repeated 12 times. It is like a stammer, and the YDNA loses or gains one of these sequences much more rapidly. This loss and gain results in splitting the Haplogroup into hundreds of paternal lines. These mutations are held by scientists to occur every 1,500 years or so. This period is much less than the 20,000 years allocated to the female Haplogroups. These figures are still far too old – and we will see below they are far less than that. Related clans in the US and Britain have experienced single-step mutations within two hundred years.

We now know that mutations of one two and three steps have occurred between father and son and where it is known absolutely that the paternal line is not in dispute. The DYS 439 is notoriously unstable and the DYS 464 has four subsections which has now been proven to have mutated in two sub sections together with the DYS 439 to a three step mutation in one generation. The assumptions regarding the model are wrong. The mtDNA from the Kerala tests have been shown to mutate every generation for at least three generations from background radiation. The 20,000 year model is a joke.

The most common clan in Ireland is what is termed clan Oisin, and it is a Gaelic clan, being less common in areas where the Anglo-Norman invasion occurred. In the South-east, where most of their influence was felt, particularly in Leinster, Oisin is some 73%. In Ulster in the North-east it is 81%, while in Munster in the South-west it is 95%, and in Connacht in the West of Ireland it reaches 98% of all males (op. cit., p. 160).

In contrast, for the mtDNA, all seven of the major maternal European clans and most of the minor ones were present in Ireland, and they were more or less equally distributed over the four provinces.

The YDNA clan Oisin signature can be found also among the Basques in Spain, and in Galicia and in Orkney. It is termed the Atlantic Modal Haplotype (AMH) and has repeats as follows: 11-24-13-13-12-14-12-12-10-6 on the Oxford sequence.

It exists in Scotland and in England and indicates Celtic influence right across the Isles. Geoffrey of Monmouth records that the Trojan Celts found the Magogites there and subjugated them when they invaded Britain.

The clan is found in effect where we would expect the Irish to have travelled according to their history. These are the sons of Japheth through Magog, and perhaps also Gomer.

The major section of the I Haplogoup (Isles) in Ireland, which was the original Hg of the Tuatha de Danaan moved across into England and Scotland and is merged now with the Hg I that came in with the Anglo-Saxon Horde and with the Vikings. Dan of the West is mixed now with the other tribes in Britain.

Rate of Change

The obvious objection to the mathematical model at one change per 20,000 years is not really canvassed by academia.

The variable rate of change between the YDNA and mtDNA groups shows a distinct variation on the rate of change by areas between the YDNA and mtDNA and among mtDNA and YDNA groups themselves.

For example, as we have seen in the Milesian Irish there are nine major Haplogroup variations in the lineage and then a series of further variations from R1b to R1b1c7 – which is the basic YDNA of the descendants of Neill of the Nine Hostages who lived some 1,600-odd years ago, and accounts for the lineage of some 5% of all Irishmen. Neill’s lineage involved 11 Haplogroup mutations from the original lineage of Adam. In some of these mutations there are two and three sub-groups formed.

On the basis of 20,000 years to a mutation, we are looking at up to 200,000 years for the YDNA mutational changes.

We know Neill lived in the fifth century CE, and there have been a series of mutational changes in the faster YDNA ‘stammer’ since that time. If we look at the YDNA of the O’Neills and the Geoghegans and the Higgins and the host of other clans that we see descended from him, we can see that the stammer mutates every hundred or two hundred years. Instead of taking this aspect seriously and matching the genealogical record of Ireland with the actual YDNA tests, which show the rate of change as much faster than anticipated, some academics have even disputed his existence rather than face the fact that the evolutionary model is wrong and artificially extended. The proper test is to set up the known genealogies and measure each stammer of each lineage. The time-frame is known exactly.

The other perfect test example is Genghis Khan, who is the most prolific sire the world has produced. Neill only runs in second place.

In the mtDNA there are three changes for the N basic making the N supergroup 60,000 years old according to evolutionists. However, the full Haplogroup rate to get to the K basic is five mutational changes to K which makes the original Eve line only 100,000 years old; plus the minor changes within K and U is the mother line of K, which makes it 80,000 years old on straight Haplogroup mutations.

The real situation is thus that male YDNA mutates virtually twice as fast as the female into discrete sub-groups in the same ethnic groups.

There are, in fact, 22 distinct YDNA sub-groups (incl. R2) and 30 mtDNA Haplogroups (incl. AuB).

The obvious conclusion we would draw from these items is that the rate of change is dependent upon the exposure to differing mtDNA systems, which itself forces the changes in both systems over the human genome.

The Bible System

Historically, we know the Milesians arrived in Ireland ca. 500 BCE. Those who there before were the Tuatha de Danaan, who ruled Ireland for centuries previously and were Haplogroup I. These people also spread into Britain, and hence the majority of them are no longer in Ireland but in Britain; and their females are also there. These are the Hg I (Isles) sub-group. Biblically they were born not earlier than the eighteenth century BCE.

Their YDNA could not be earlier than 2400 BCE with the birth of Shem. We know for a fact that the Semitic Hg J came from I and encompasses the early Jews and Levites in both J1 and J2 and hence both must be later than the Exodus in 1448 BCE, or Arab/Edomite DNA has intruded into the Cohenim. We know for a fact that Askenazi Khazar YDNA has been introduced to the Levites, with over half of them being R1a Khazars (see the paper The Genetic Origin of the Nations (No. 265)).

The mutation may have occurred after the first century CE, as the period after the Temple system in the first half of the second century saw the complete dispersion. The Lemba moved to Zimbabwe on the Limpopo River and they retain that mutation; it is also found among the Buba clan who claim Cohen descent. Their move was before the building of the stone city in Zimbabwe, as they claim to have built it. Modern historians claim the Shona built it around 1100-1400 CE. It was abandoned shortly before the Portuguese first saw it in the 16th century. They might have left the Middle East anytime in the first millennium CE. 

Biblically, the 22 YDNA Haplogroups cannot be more than 4,300 years old. The change rates for A, B, C and root D, E, E3B are all Hamitic, and C and F split from Noah’s sons.

All Semitic and Japhethite lineages come from F. The Semites are G, H, I, J (J coming from I). All Japhethite lineages come from K.

Thus, with seven splits to the R1b, we have a mutation rate of one in four hundred years at the absolute maximum.

That is what we are seeing with the family groups that went, for example, to the US four hundred years or less ago, and we are getting evidence of one-step mutations in the same families in less than that period within two hundred years.

R1b Celts have split into a series of sub-groups in five mutations over the last two thousand years and so the mutations are occurring every two hundred years.

When isolated into a stable tribal YDNA and mtDNA system there is little mutation over the same period of time as we see with the Australian Aborigines.

Given the change rates from this perspective, we would expect to see changes of 2.5 at 400 equal a base rate of stable to a rate of 7 x 400 or 2,800 years.

That is the time we in fact would have expected to see the Tuatha de Danaan well established in Ireland, and the Trojans to have entered Britain after the fall of Troy in 1054 BCE – according to the histories in the tenth century BCE.

We know for a fact that mutations occur more than once in twenty thousand years from historical observance and the distribution of tribes and languages.

The evolutionists are clearly wrong and working in a self-imposed vacuum.

---

Publisher & Copyright Notice

Christian Churches of God

PO Box 369,  WODEN  ACT 2606,  AUSTRALIA

E-mail: secretary@ccg.org

(Copyright © 2007 Wade Cox)

This paper may be freely copied and distributed provided it is copied in total with no alterations or deletions. The publisher’s name and address and the copyright notice must be included.  No charge may be levied on recipients of distributed copies.  Brief quotations may be embodied in critical articles and reviews without breaching copyright.